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"We want to let the people defeat the Taliban"

Pakistan's PresidentPervez Musharrafdiscussed his new book,In the Line of Fire, and the war on terrorism with members of the Council on Foreign Relations, including Global Viewpoint editor Nathan Gardels. Following are edited excerpts of the discussion, which took place in New York on September 25.

Pervez Musharraf: "Palestine remains at the core which is driving people to extremism, terrorism and suicide bombs." — PHOTO: AFP

You have said that the long-run answer to terrorism is to win the minds and hearts of the poor of the Muslim world. Where does that stand now five years after 9/11?

The situation is getting more complicated because more fronts have been opened, from Iraq to Lebanon to the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Clearly, only using military means to combat terrorism is a mistake.

Extremism is the force which spawns terrorism, so we must deal with the roots of that extremism which lay in poverty and alienation and a sense of injustice in the Muslim world that still comes, among other things, from the issue of Palestine not being resolved justly.

All military means can do is buy time and create an environment so that social development policies and political negotiations can take place. Since military means are all that have been used so far, not many hearts and minds have been changed.

What can be done then, starting with Iraq?

Whether Iraq or Lebanon, we need to solve the Palestine issue first. That will create positive effects everywhere. It is putting the cart before the horse to try to resolve Lebanon or Iraq first. Palestine remains at the core which is driving people to extremism, terrorism and suicide bombs.

In Iraq, either an autocratic system must emerge to hold it together or a democratic system needs to fairly represent the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites. More immediately, security must be handed to the Iraqis to reduce the visibility of foreign forces as soon as possible.

What about the Shiite-Sunni split in the Muslim world? Will solving the Palestinian issue change that?

Before 1979, there was not much problem between Shiites and Sunnis. It was only the Iranian revolution which made these differences come up to the front. We are all Muslims, after all. So this is an area that can be tackled. It is not insolvable and will change with education over time. The real issue is the sense of alienation and anger across the whole Muslim world, whether Sunni or Shia.

Some have doubted whether your recent deal with the tribal leaders of Waziristan, along the Afghan border, will work and have wondered whether the military will have to be brought in again. What is your response?

First of all, there has been no change in the military situation on the ground. No soldier has been moved out. What we have done is reach an agreement with the local assembly of tribal elders — the jirga — to counter the Taliban and Talibanisation. Al-Qaeda is dangerous to the world. But from the Afghan and Pakistani point of view, the Taliban are much more dangerous because they are from the people.

These Taliban today are the same ones who ruled Afghanistan. Only the local people can recognise them and identify them for us.

The most dangerous thing that could happen in Afghanistan today is if the ethnic majority, the Pashtuns, joined the Taliban and turned into a people's movement against foreigners. Therefore, at this moment, the most important thing is to break any link between the Pashtun and the Taliban.

That is what this deal is about from along our side of the border in those areas where the Pashtun live.

We want to let the people defeat the Taliban, and we will stand behind them. But if we use only military means, we will fail.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai said he gave you intelligence on the Taliban that you didn't act upon.

To be effective, intelligence must be immediate. No target sits there for three months waiting to get caught. Six-month-old telephone numbers are useless. That is the kind of information I was given by Karzai's intelligence chief. I was rude and said to him, "You waited for a state visit to give me this? Why didn't you pick up the phone and call me, like British intelligence did recently after the plane plot. We caught the man in four days."

In any case, we took Karzai's information. Most of it was nonsense. Either there was nobody there or they were just peaceful people. It was a joke. There were houses on the list we already raided long ago that were locked and sealed.

It is unfortunate that President Karzai thinks all the problems are on the Pakistan side of the border. Mullah Omar still runs the Taliban. He has never been to Pakistan in his life.

The supreme commander of NATO, Gen. James Jones, has reportedly said that Quetta (in Pakistan) is the headquarters of the Taliban. How do you respond to that?

I challenge anyone who says that. They are wrong. We have two divisions there in Quetta. It is the most ridiculous statement to say this. Pakistan and the U.S. are in complete coordination on intelligence. The CIA doesn't think this.

The problem is not Pakistan, but the alienation of the Pashtun. Perhaps the answer to all these concerns about the border is to build a fence? Why not? India has fenced 500 miles of its border. It's feasible. — 2006 Global Viewpoint

(Distributed By Tribune Media Services, Inc/Asia Features)

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"We want to let the people defeat the Taliban"

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