Symbol of division

Varying opinions seem to be doing the rounds in Hindi literary circles ever since the publication of Kamleshwar's ambitious new novel in February. In both content and form, there have been innovations.

In his distinguished and chequered career Kamleshwar has played numerous roles. Born in 1932, he has published over 40 books, including 11 story collections, 10 novels and 20 volumes of memoirs, critiques and travelogues. He has also scripted 99 feature films, 15 television serials, and countless documentaries. He has also been the editor of several magazines and mainline Hindi newspapers.

Kamleshwar was Indian television's first scriptwriter, and also its Additional Director General. Also a columnist and a commentator he has returned to creative writing with an ambitious novel, Kitne Pakistan (using the metaphor in the context of division or partition of any kind), says SURESH KOHLI.

Excerpts from the interview:

Kitne Pakistan is your first major work of fiction in a long time. Can you explain this break in creative writing?

This was because I was busy with journalism, film writing, television script writing. I was all the time with this novel for almost 30 years. The theme always disturbed me - how I should deal with a concept that is culturally not fair, or geographically not fair. And this thought pricked me from time to time. Then in 1970 I wrote a story with the same title, Kitne Pakistan, based on the communal riots in Bhiwandi in Maharashtra. But that is another story and has nothing to do with this novel.

So this idea, concept, or disturbance was somewhere within. And it was not just about geographical division, but a division of cultures, civilisations and even the mythologies of various civilisations. This division was created in order in order for those responsible to be in power and then usurp the best not in physical terms but in spiritual and in metaphysical terms also. This constantly disturbed me, and I started writing this novel. I just had a hazy idea, and to begin with did not really know how to go about it

How long did it take you to write?

The actual writing of it has taken about a decade.

Did you evolve the treatment as the narrative unfolded or did you have a pre-conceived format?

Actually, I had nothing pre-planned as far as the format was concerned. It was only when I began writing and around chapter 13 that I realised the kind of expanse that I was going to have to cover which would make it another Mahabharata if I did not check the flow. It was here that all those techniques I had learnt from other creative media came in handy. So, I could go back in time, and at the same time arrest somewhere the exaggeration of words and ideas. Moreover, I have taken my reader to be a very intelligent one, and assumed that things that flare up, or erupt or grow in my mind are the same with my contemporaries everywhere.

Are you suggesting that the technique and form that you eventually formed helped you in not making it a conventional historical novel?

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Because I was neither writing nor interpreting history. My interpretation was something which had apart from history, the civilisational aspect of it and at the same time the obtaining reality of my own era.

You have used Pakistan as a symbol, not as a geographical reality but to convey any kind of division or enforced separation. Don't you think that it makes the title somewhat misleading?

I don't really think so. Because this has been clearly laid out in the novel itself. The reader has to take that meaning only. For me Kitne Pakistan or Pakistan is just a symbol. And the symbol of the divisions that are taking place for the past so many centuries, and that will keep taking place if we do not change our view of history, our view of culture, and make sure that the emerging pattern of multi-nationalism that is taking place in almost every country does not create a further divide.

This novel has turned out to be a unique experiment in Hindi fiction. What has been the response?

I would be more concerned with your reaction. The reaction has been varied and generally favourable. In very simple terms, I would like to say that the overall response has been encouraging. Within two months of its publication I started receiving phone calls and letters. It was the same with my publishers and they forwarded the responses to me. But what was more heartening for me, and not my publishers, was the fact that pirated editions priced at Rs. 70 or Rs. 80 (against the printed price of Rs. 250) started hitting small town markets. So this was the kind of encouraging information that thrilled me. I felt I had succeeded in reaching out to a wider Hindi readership. Something that I had fervently hoped to do.

You have been involved with almost all aspects of creative communication. Do you think there is any specific input of creativity that can be contained in any particular form?

I don't think so. Creativity has now gone into various other areas of activity, be it film making, theatre or television. The creativity, or the possibility of creativity, is inherent in every medium. But when I write, there is a little more concentration compared to when I write for films, or for television serials. So I do feel that writing literature is somewhat more creative.

At this point of time how do you envisage the future of books?

I think a book that has a very strong content can live through decades and centuries. There is absolutely no problem as far as the published book is concerned. This is because the book gives you that kind of a mental thinking space, to stop and think and read again. So then the book becomes a more intimate piece of creativity than films or television.

What do you think is happening in the world of Hindi literature? Are there any plausible experiments being done, and what do you think is really wrong with the kind of language being used?

I can say that I was getting a bit wary about the kind of things being published. This despite the fact that there have been some very good short stories, novels and plays but their area of experience was getting narrower. A greater vision of the times was missing. So with the help of all the techniques that I borrowed from other media I tried to break the geography of the so-called realistic kind of writing. Unfortunately, the language that is being used today is dead Hindi. It does not convey anything, does not communicate anything and it is very difficult to go through even ten pages of a novel. Either there is too much use of dialects which makes it very difficult to understand the nuances, or there is the other extreme of writing, as far as language is concerned, of more and more Sanskritisation. So I feel that the language has to be the people's language, which you can definitely find in Hindi film writing. There is no doubt that at times it is very absurd and vulgar. I am not saying that vulgarity has to be there but that a common Hindi, which is now taking shape all over the country, has to be imbibed into literary Hindi. I feel that the idea of the language, the construction of the language or the syntax has to be taken from Premchand and other important writers like Amritlal Nagar.

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