Sunday, Apr 06, 2003
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By P. S. Suryanarayana
P. S. Suryanarayana: Sir, your visit to India comes at a very interesting stage in bilateral relations as also in the international situation. What will you be focusing primarily on? Goh Chok Tong: I think, firstly, we hope to have a candid exchange of views with Prime Minister Vajpayee and other Indian leaders on the situation internationally. The most current topic, of course, is Iraq that has wider implications for all of us. Secondly, for bilateral relations, the focus will be on enhancing our ties. We have a study going on, and that study will be completed and sent to the two Prime Ministers. We would then launch a formal negotiation of a comprehensive economic partnership (CECA, Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement). Do you think that there is any scope for Singapore and India to have some kind of a security dialogue or a strategic dialogue? It is probably not needed at this stage, in a formal sense, when intelligence exchange on security matters and terrorism is there. And, India is helpful to us. When the Deputy Prime Minister of India, L.K. Advani, was here some time ago, he had raised with you (the idea of) a Joint Working Group on Security. That can be done. I don't know whether we have one. I don't think so. That kind of level, I would support. At the political level... At the political level, I think, need-basis is better. About the larger bilateral issues, what is the stage at which the (CECA) matter stands? The joint study (on CECA) will be presented to us. And both Prime Ministers should (have to) agree formally to launch negotiations. And then, we hope to complete negotiation on this agreement within 12 to 18 months. I will be hoping that we can complete the negotiation nearer 12 months. And, this will be a rather comprehensive agreement. It goes beyond (a) Free Trade Agreement (FTA). Here, we hope to look into investment areas as well and avoidance of double taxation. Also, (the) possibility of open skies or chartered flights... air services agreement. Do you foresee any hassles during the negotiations? There will be hassles. For example, the case of our negotiation with the U.S. Oh! I think, when it comes to negotiation, I would say, the other side is very tough. They'll probably say Singapore is very tough. Because, once you have a good deal, once the deal is done, you abide by it. So, I expect a lot of hassle, tussle. Any specific areas of hassle? Singapore, of course, is much small, liberal in our trading regime. India, I think, will have the facility of being more cautious. Because, an agreement with Singapore will set the precedent for more of other agreements which India may do. But, you don't anticipate a failure... It is unthinkable at this stage. Because, India has offered to do India-ASEAN (Association of South East Asian Nations) FTA. And, the FTA or CECA with Singapore should be regarded as the path-finder for India-ASEAN FTA. So, all the difficulties which India may face with ASEAN should be resolved with Singapore. As much as possible should be resolved. If you fail, well, how can you expect India to have an ASEAN FTA? I remember your very positive and optimistic statement about India at the Phnom Penh (ASEAN-India) summit last year when you described India as (one) wing of the (ASEAN) jumbo, China being the other wing. Correct. I still am optimistic. My vision of a future for Asia is a very prosperous China; of course, India is also growing and becoming more prosperous. Whether India or China is more prosperous is immaterial, when you have two gigantic economies growing at about, say, 5-8 per cent a year for the next 20 years. Then, Singapore and ASEAN can be the gateway or a bridge between these two gigantic economies. You have mentioned the specific idea of Singapore acting as a bridge between India and China in economic terms. Do you have any forecast? It will take time. At the moment, Singapore is quite active in China. We hope we can find a way whereby we facilitate interaction between Indian businessmen and Chinese businessmen. We hopefully can also be a joint partner. When contacts are established between the Indian businessmen and the Chinese businessmen, they may not need Singapore, or they may depend less on Singapore. That does not matter. Because our ultimate goal must be for India and China to have very strong economic relations. And then, we would somehow benefit from this. That is the simple thinking. It is quite sophisticated thinking. Do you have any specific areas in mind in bringing India and China together? Is it information technology (IT)? Is it the New Economy? I don't have any favourite sector. But IT certainly will be an area. India is stronger than China in IT, but China is coming up. So, if somehow, we can marry the intellectual prowess in IT over here, I think, this whole place can be the New Silicon Valley. Much bigger than Silicon Valley. And, the markets will be here. I will say (it's) a fundamental approach. It is not sophisticated (approach). The thing is: can you make it work or not. That's the key. And, I think, we can. What is the feedback from China and India on this score that Singapore can play the bridge? I would say they are generally being supportive. The idea that India and China can come together through the good offices of Singapore... China and India will say, `Why do we need to go through Singapore? We can have direct contact'. And, we will encourage them. But we believe we can add value in this relationship. For the time being, anyway. (On the ASEAN front), Indian IT professionals were (recently) targeted in Malaysia. Can ASEAN step in some way to ensure that one ASEAN member or the other does not do such things? No. This is within the national practice of a particular country. If we begin to discuss an ASEAN-India FTA, I think this issue can be raised within ASEAN. What happened in Malaysia was unfortunate. I read that Acting Prime Minister Badawi (of Malaysia) apologised. If you want to say something off the record... Indian professionals are welcome here (in Singapore). Please keep it on the record. In fact, I would be looking for ways to try and get IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology) to set up off-India campus in Singapore... If it succeeds, this place plus India becomes a centre or an alternative centre to Silicon Valley for IT services...You must make Indians feel welcome in the area. We have got to make the living conditions here as good as they could get in U.S. Singapore is a foreigner-friendly location. (However) Sometimes, you get a feeling (of) some subterranean constituency (in Singapore) against a quantum leap in your relations with India? No. But you may get, periodically, some headlines or even some speeches by Government leaders whether India's democracy is holding it back. But, that doesn't mean we are against a quantum leap in relations. If you compare China and India, how is it China can grow much faster. ...(However) India has found a way to hold the country together. That is, through its democracy. That is the strength of India. (On other bilateral issues) there was some mention of an extradition treaty and also a mutual legal assistance pact. Is there any likelihood of having these things in place in the short term? The Mutual Legal Assistance thing, as members of the Commonwealth, we already have some agreement, some arrangements about that. As for extradition, I am not aware that they are negotiating one. On anti-terrorism (for which an extradition treaty will be very useful), Singapore has done remarkable work in identifying the (terror) cells. How did it happen? Is it because of September 11 alone or... No. I think we have always been quite vigilant in monitoring the situation that has just arisen from the Al-Qaeda or JI (Jemaah Islamiyah) Group. We have always been quite careful about security. ...I think it was fortuitous, that (a) Muslim reporter told our security agency that (a) certain Muslim was going to Afghanistan. Then, you stumble(d) on the network in Singapore. Do you think a lid has been placed on this anti-terrorism issue in the South East Asian region? I think a lid has been placed but the lid is not tightly sealed. The lid can pop up again any time. There is a lull at the moment. But I believe the network is still active and cells are still being formed... Was any link traced to Pakistan in this connection? The Singaporeans (involved) were actually Pakistani (origin) Muslims. It is not a link between Pakistan groups and Singapore groups. Not that we know of, anyway. How do you characterise your relations with Pakistan? I would say, cordial. We are even-handed with India and Pakistan. Both are friends. But because of the economic relations that we have with India, I would say, there is more interaction with India at this stage. But one thought you probably have a special relationship with India as compared with Pakistan. Well, in a personal sense, I think, my relationships with the Indian leaders are stronger than with the Pakistani leaders. Because, I have visited India several times, as a result of economic, close, ties. ... (On the Kashmir issue), we leave it to India and Pakistan. What is the state of Singapore's (political) relations with China? I think the term to use is `excellent'. People-to-people relations are strong. Lot of business opportunities (are) over there. But we are always cautious of not being sucked into China, as our interest in India... is genuine. ... If you are dependent on China economically, then, you don't have room to manoeuvre. China is very important to us. But at the same time, India should become another important friend of ours. But, if I am not punning on your own expression, is there an even-handedness between China and India, for Singapore? Yes. Working (with) both in ASEAN is even-handed. But again, the reality is our relations are closer with China at this stage, economically. ... I argue for India-ASEAN FTA. I argue for China-ASEAN FTA.
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